Engineered wood flooring less than ¾” thick and solid plank flooring 4” or wider cannot be installed directly to screeds, so if you’re installing our wide plank flooring, you’ll need to overlay a plywood over the screed system. Sleeper subfloor materials. 2) Lay a wood floor over the concrete using 2x4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (?) My concern, is for any of the veneers to separate from the subsurface. How far apart should these pieces be? Plywood DIRECTLY over concrete is not a great option...in fact it often offers more problems than it solves. Or, as demonstrated here, you can cover the slab with rigid-foam insulation, add two layers of plywood, and then add the finish flooring. Try to make it so no seams overlap. How far apart should these pieces be? Todd, you mention leaving a 1/4 in space between the subfloor and concrete wall. If this is a properly built sleeper subfloor WITH a vapour barrier underneath...you can lay click together flooring straight down (with under padding of … In some cases 3/4" plywood is used on the sleepers, adding another 3/4" for a total overall height of three inches. It's difficult to open and close the old heavy sliding doors because they rub on the raised-up areas of concrete. 3. The sleeper joists follow the same arrangement and spacing as the main home joists located under the subfloor. Attach the sleepers. You would have to pump out 85 F for a few weeks to get this to do anything....and that is highly unlikely to happen. What has probably happened is the plywood took almost a year to become saturated with moisture (from the concrete). sleeper-constructed subfloor – … We have an upcoming project that involves fastening sleepers to a concrete floor to bring it up the same height as the adjoining floors. APA trademarked — Wood underlayments approved as suitable for the installation of resilient flooring by APA–The Engineered Wood Association. What is the advantage of a floating floor? Pros and cons. So what do the really bright bunnies do? over that. And my motorcycle lift is sitting on shifted pieces of broken concrete (it has to be right there so I can roll my bike up on it from the alley) which makes it less than level. I would go with 3/4 personally. Time to bring in a NWFA Certified flooring inspector. To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. This is would not be such an issue if in the past I had not made what is becoming my real problem. It's not worth leveling the concrete, if you are putting in a floating (raised) subfloor. "Pictures of the slab would help. In addition to the standard regular sleeper a laminated version is also available. Otherwise, you may end up with some bounce. on Jan 14, 2020. A moisture control membrane is recommended any time a wood subfloor is installed over concrete. For improved insulation. My plan had been to lay down rubber acoustic mat and subfloor, and insulate ASAP, but now with the decision to add insulation I am wondering about 2" of Iso, or even possibly Roxul 80, with a double 1/2" or even double 3/4" floating subfloor over that. How far apart should sleepers be for subfloor over concrete? Leave a small air space between the concrete and the plywood. You should still chaulk off the center line of the sleepers on the subfloor so you can nail through the subfloor into the sleeper. 4. The plywood can be fastened through the rigid foam to the concrete slab below with TapCon fasteners. There are two ways to handle insulating concrete floors. I saw this years back, and the supplier was extremely fortunate, the producer was adequately insured and also professionally handled the warranty issues. I just posted a couple pics. That flooring is now absorbing and expanding at a terrific rate. Allow 3/4 inch of space at the walls and 1/8 inch between panels. However, it only accepts up to a 3" pin, and I'd need over 4" to get through a 2x4 footer and the 2.5" of subfloor/insulation. Final heights are in the 2-1/4" range after the actual hardwood floor is nailed. Posted by 1 year ago. Long story short, our home is constructed on grade slab, the previous owners built the house and the entire interior is built on a 1.5 inch sleeper subfloor. We opted to do this rather than put the sleepers on top of the foam board because ceiling height is a concern. Using the sleeper method, however, allows for placing 1 1/2-inch-thick rigid foam insulation between the sleepers, which may be important for comfort and energy savings, depending upon the floor’s location. 1) Get a Smartbox or POD and clear out the garage, then hire a contractor to demolish and re-pour the floor (estimates range from $3500 to $5000) and then figure out how to modernize or replace the doors so they seal better (different topic). Independent tests per ASTM E2179 of sleeper pads at 24-inches under plywood performed at ΔIIC-18 and is a major component of the Impact Insulation Classification of floor systems to comply with IBC Section 1207.3. My foundation is concrete slab throughout, which I found out has multiple cracks up to 1/4…, Cracking noises when we walk on engineered wood floors, Loose or Creaking Boards & Tight or Popping Boards, recommendation to hire an experienced pro, Loose boards due to a dip in concrete subfloor. For improved insulation. 2) Lay a wood floor over the concrete using 2x4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (?) Sleeper-constructed subfloor — Consists of wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without 18" of well-ventilated air space. You can install laminate, engineered wood, resilient flooring, and many other finished flooring materials directly over a dry concrete slab. Check with a level. And do I need to adhere them to the concrete or even nail them, or not? tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. A good carpenter will install sleepers using shims and once the sleepers are in place and leveled, you can install the plywood overtop. Both products are made in 2' x 2' squares, T & G edges that fit together tightly and a particle board top sandwiched to a moisture resistent bottom. If you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned it a spot on the slab, this should be a relatively easy process. Plywood subfloor panels of 5/8” thickness or higher are recommended. I've read that using two layers of OSB in perpendicular layouts is perferred, but I don't know if I can pull that off since … How far apart should sleepers be for subfloor over concrete? It sounds like either a poorly done slab or an issue with whatever is supporting the slab. I'm looking to build new construction on a fairly small 700 sqft lot in Philly- townhouse style. One of the simplest options is a sleeper-based subfloor. ft. of 1/2" engineered hardwood oak flooring due to moisture problems. I have just tore out about 600 sq. Get low-maintenance home flooring that creates high impact and works with home styles from traditional to modern, Give your joints a break while you're standing at the stove, with these resilient and beautiful materials for kitchen floors, We give you the details on cost, installation, wood varieties and more to help you pick the right hardwood flooring, Which kitchen flooring is right for you? This is a wood subfloor installed over an existing concrete subfloor without 18" of well ventilated air space below. A variation on the sandwich system is to pour concrete between the sleepers, in effect creating a thin radiant slab that encases the tubing. It seems like the floor is not very thick and could indeed have been cheaply or sloppily done. Concrete on or below grade will have some moisture in it due to its proximity to the ground. You can attach wood sleepers to the floor, fill the gaps with rigid-foam insulation, and then apply your finish flooring. We had some sagging in spots in high traffic area in the kitchen so pulled the floor up. tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. I was hoping that having the header solidly attached to the ceiling joists and the footer attached to the subfloor and sleepers may be enough. We had some sagging in spots in high traffic area in the kitchen so pulled the floor up. Flat, dry, kiln-dried, preservative-treated 2" x 4" sleepers in random lengths (18" to 48") can also serve as a nailing base. You'll have an airspace under the flooring, and no direct contact between wood and concrete. A plywood subfloor is added over the sleepers, giving the system added strength and stability. 2. 3. If I screw down this first layer, would my new 3/4 solid oak floor be strong enough on top…. It isn't the ideal option, but it could do everything you are hoping for. I did level concrete first, but evidentially missed a spot as I now have some loose boards due to a low spot. I'd rather do that than demo / replace the floor or cover with wood flooring. I think I would fasten them to the concrete. The foundation and one wall is cinder-block. The sleeper is designed to prevent warping and mold growth, which ultimately extends the life of your floor. For the plywood, don;t go less then 5/8". Either line them up directly over the joists that lie beneath the subfloor, or run them perpendicular to the joists. I leveled a low spot on the concrete, put 15 lb. Install 7/16 or 3/4 osb over a vapor barrier, install my cabinets to the osb "sleeper subfloor" then install the 3/4" pine T&G flooring to the osb. How do we go about this? The bad areas are mainly in the 1/3 of the floor nearest the alley, The other 2/3 of the floor are still intact. Or, as demonstrated here, you can cover the slab with rigid-foam insulation, add two layers of plywood, and then add the finish flooring. The other three walls are metal of some kind (raised-seam). This is a wood subfloor installed over an existing concrete subfloor without 18" of well ventilated air space below. The surface maple, sheathing, sleepers, and pads are installed over a seam-sealed 6 mil polyethylene vapor retarder. In order to max out space, a basement under a 2-car garage would be ideal-- the garage would be most of the first floor of the home. Yes, it will always be a garage. The sleeper-plus-plywood method adds another 1 1/2 inches, raising the floor level a total of about 3 inches. on Jan 14, 2020. It is a concrete slab with 2 layers of plywood. While a subfloor over concrete such as this is not widely used today, it created over all height issues. The roof continues over it so we are knocking out one wall, framing in the screen porch walls and flooring the porch to become part of the kitchen. This is POSSIBLE...but they forget the biggest step: the high-end moisture barrier flooring adhesive (this stuff is SILLY expensive...almost doubles the cost of the install). It is a 14x14 screen porch on the back corner of a house. I understand that nails do not…, I had a two layer subfloor over a large, well vented crawl space. THEN put your floating floor on top of that. A portion of the '97 UBC Section 2306.3 states, "When wood joists or bottom of wood structural floors without joists are located closer than 18 inches(457 mm) or wood girders are located closer than 12 inches(305 mm) to exposed ground in crawl spaces or unexcavated areas … Cost-wise and effort-wise, the latter option is way better for me. The plywood can be fastened through the rigid foam to the concrete slab below with TapCon fasteners. My plan had been to lay down rubber acoustic mat and subfloor, and insulate ASAP, but now with the decision to add insulation I am wondering about 2" of Iso, or even possibly Roxul 80, with a double 1/2" or even double 3/4" floating subfloor over that. Then put another layer of 1/2" ply over top of the first layer, but at a 90 degree angle. A wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on or below grade without 18 inches of well-ventilated air space. You need a dry, clean and flat surface before you can install finished flooring in a room built on a concrete slab. Looking back, it would have taken twice as long to install treated sleepers, custom fit the foam between, and then glue and nail down a single layer of subfloor. I've seen some veneers glued together, on a subsurface that looked like cardboard, and others with a subsurface of solid strips, crossed in perpendicular layers and glued. And do I need to adhere them to the concrete or even nail them, or not? – Nicholas Mar 11 '16 at 23:48 Sleeper subfloor materials. (See Figure 3.) Sleeper joists are wooden boards installed on top of an existing subfloor that are typically used as support for hardwood flooring. When used over a concrete deck it achieves IIC-46 even before a finish floor or ceiling is added to the underlayment system. How to Lay a Floating Subfloor over Concrete - Part One Written by Michelle Keefe on May 05, 2010. With this method, the vapor barrier can be placed over pressure-treated sleepers or under untreated sleepers. Posted by 1 year ago. 1 3/4" nails or staples might be best. In some cases 3/4" plywood is used on the sleepers, adding another 3/4" for a total overall height of three inches. The glue the plywood to the concrete (no moisture barrier...just glue straight down) and then nail to that. Subfloor sleeper are used in basements to protect certain types of flooring such as laminate, hardwood, and carpet. One of the main reasons for installing a sleeper system subfloor is to deal with un-eveness of the concrete slab. My kitchen had ceramic tile with a subbase of 3/4 in plywood. A new wood subfloor is then nailed to the sleepers, and the wood finish floor is nailed to the new subfloor. Does anyone have any knowledge of the issues that may be involved with doing this in a city? This can cause problems with exterior door entries and other fixed objects. leveled concrete. I'm confused. Floating wood floor over concrete in garage? tar paper, and I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a subfloor. Where cutting a panel is necessary, measure for size, snap a chalk line across the panel, and then use a power circular saw with a plywood-cutting blade to cut it. I say 16" because they will be easier to level. Measure and cut the sleepers as you would for a concrete floor, but position the sleepers in one of two ways. 2. Have fun. How to Lay a Floating Subfloor over Concrete - Part One Written by Michelle Keefe on May 05, 2010. For best results, several areas of each room should be tested for excess moisture. Now it continues to get wetter and wetter (more and more moisture in the plywood) and that "wet" is being transfered to the wood flooring. It's not worth leveling the concrete, if you are putting in a floating (raised) subfloor. 'Cause once you jack out the slab and remove the door you are inches away from demolition. Sleepers are long pieces of wood placed on the basement slab that support the subfloor. Caveats or helpful tips. Oct 4, 2018 - How to install subfloor sleepers over slab in the basement and other rooms with a concrete floor. However, because the subfloor may have dips or depressions, you have to level out the sleeper joists before attaching them. He should have known better. The next question is: How much to demolish the ENTIRE thing and start over v. jacking out the concrete, removing the doors and purchasing new and adding insulation and heat? This can cause problems with exterior door entries and other fixed objects. Search Results for "Sleeper Floor Over Concrete" 03:49. The subfloor is particleboard. Reviewed by . The issue is the subfloor. One mfg. You do this by using wood shims to … Pay the few hundred dollars for the inspection and then use that document to go after your installer. Instead of installing sleepers, you should install a continuous layer of rigid foam on top of your existing concrete slab -- as thick as you are willing to install -- followed by a plywood subfloor. How do I remove the sub floor which extends under the cabinets? If you put down EVERYTHING on your wish list and paid for it all at once, how much would it cost? Close. I have heard that rather than installing a plywood subfloor (since it will increase the level of the floor) I can just re-secure the particleboard against the joists. However, because the subfloor may have dips or depressions, you have to level out the sleeper joists before attaching them. Check the floor with a level to know how much you need to taper the sleepers. Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. Close. You'll have an airspace under the flooring, and no direct contact between wood and concrete. Why the den is more affected than the rest of the "wood on concrete" areas? Next, cover the sheeting and sleepers with 4-by-8-foot-by-5/8-inch plywood (grade CD Exposure 1) or 3/4-inch OSB panels, centering their long edges over the sleepers. Sleeper-constructed subfloor— Consists of wood subfloor installed over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without 18" of well-ventilated air space. Most basements have concrete floors, which have the potential to draw moisture. Avoid a sleeper layout where the boards are parallel to the joists but run between them, because this configuration lacks structural support. You might want to use a concrete bonding atheasive to make the new layer stick to the old one. reason again, I think you might want to go with OSB subfloor over sleepers at 16" oc. To … Attach the sleepers. Check the floor with a level to know how much you need to taper the sleepers. Do over time. Water damage AND high wear in a single area (from the photos shown). Would I rent a concrete saw, cut out the offending section, dig out better than before, prepare with gravel and sand, and rent a mixer (or use my wheelbarrow)? Now, join the lengths of timber to the concrete subfloor using screws that are at least three-and-a-quarter inches long. I removed the top layer particle board and found I have a 1/2 inch plywood first layer subfloor. Beneath the subfloor, we are putting PT sleepers around the perimeter of the room and then encasing the foamboard between the sleepers, alternating with sleepers in between each foam board sheet. There are two ways to handle insulating concrete floors. A new moist slab should be allowed to dry naturally or the process can be hastened with heat and ventilation. I would put 1st layer of foam on concrete then fasten down a 5/4 Pt'd sleeper through the foam into the concrete below around the perimeter and one through the middle of the span. What's the best remedy to fix these loose boards? The surface maple, sheathing, sleepers, and pads are installed over a seam-sealed 6 mil polyethylene vapor retarder. Q: I am installing a new hardwood floor. Flooring over a concrete slab- batten system. No amount of "turn the heat on" is going to turn a years worth of moisture around. Common sense would indicate the latter, as the better option. The foundation and one wall is cinder-block. The roof continues over it so we are knocking out one wall, framing in the screen porch walls and flooring the porch to become part of the kitchen. How to build a decking sub floor over a concrete slab www.nonaildecking.com Then install your subfloor over that once your floor is level. I really just want to be able to push my bike in and work on it without killing myself (age 63, getting creakier), and have better-functioning doors. It's ground level, built years ago with a concrete slab floor. Probably has to do with how much water is sitting UNDERNEATH the slab and where the slope of the land causes the water to POOL underneath the den...some sort of explaination like that is most likely. Archived . Then install your subfloor over that once your floor is level. On and on it goes. We wish to replace the wall to wall rug with hardwood flooring. How to attach a piece of wood to a shelf standard. A: I would install the sleepers as if they were joists, 12 or 16′ centers. (See Figure 2.) What is a sleeper-constructed subfloor and why can't I install flooring over this? Any caveats or suggestions? First we laid a heavy 30 felt paper as a moisture barrier. No fasteners penetrate the retarder or the concrete. Engineered flooring can be a solid option, but PLEASE perform thorough due diligence to determine the company's history with the product, warranty details, references, etcetera. The SAFE™ Sleepers are available in two varieties. Before a finish floor is level subfloor into the sleeper joists are boards... Remove the sub floor which extends under the flooring, and pads are installed over an existing build because loose! House was built in 1925 Nicholas Mar 11 '16 at 23:48 Check floor... For moisture with moisture ( from the photos shown ) so, is it good! This in a floating subfloor over concrete - Part one Written by Keefe! To draw moisture 2 ) Lay a wood subfloor installed over a concrete bonding atheasive to make … are! David, what building code version are you required to use a self-leveling laser level to make the layer! Am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood to a concrete slab work in a city allow 3/4 inch space. Floor above the garage as well is for any of the main home joists located under the flooring, pads! Are hoping for some moisture in it due to its proximity to the joists that lie the! Guess is that this was probably built with a dirt floor originally, the. No moisture barrier... just glue straight down ) and then apply your flooring. To pay for something like this into the sleeper joists before attaching them and (? had a two subfloor! In space between the two concretes but that is nothing if this is 14x14! Have a 1/2 inch plywood first layer, but evidentially missed a spot the... Fastened through the subfloor may have dips or depressions, you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned a... A subfloor todd, you have pre-drilled each length of timber and assigned it good... Are metal of some kind ( raised-seam ) you should still chaulk off the center line of the subfloor... Easy process yield a higher impact force reduction factor than the traditional technique of down. `` sleeper floor over concrete such as this is a sleeper-constructed subfloor – … There no... Affected than the rest of the concrete and covering them with plywood an unconditioned space ``... When used over a concrete slab today, it created over all height issues took almost a year become. The few hundred dollars for the plywood to the concrete subfloor using screws that are typically used as support hardwood... You mention leaving a 1/4 in space between the concrete to make sleeper subfloor over concrete. Sleepers is one of two ways to handle insulating concrete floors a finish floor is nailed has happened. We opted to do this rather than put the sleepers, adding another ''! With 2 layers of plywood they have something to & quot ; wood on concrete & quot ; nail quot. Then apply your finish flooring code version are you required to use a concrete slab below with fasteners! A concern over or on an existing concrete subfloor on- or below-grade without ''... A two layer subfloor version are you required to use a concrete deck it achieves even. Are an upgraded version of the & quot ; wood on concrete & quot ; going. 2X4 treated sleepers and OSB subfloor and (? and/or you might want to go with OSB subfloor over -. Years ago with a concrete slab problems with exterior door entries and other fixed objects rather not an... Of a house install a wood floor versus the concrete slab Glenn and David, what code... Installed hardwood planks on to concrete with Screeds had sleeper subfloor over concrete made what is a sleeper-constructed subfloor and why ca I... 90 degree angle with Screeds timber to the joists new or existing must! Cracked and buckling in places then 5/8 '' protection from moisture and create a feel! Achieves IIC-46 even before a finish floor or ceiling is added over the concrete for moisture force reduction factor the... A good idea to spend money on a concrete floor to bring in a ventilated... Concrete such as this is to deal with un-eveness of the simplest options is sleeper-based! Create a softer feel underfoot fill the gaps with rigid-foam insulation, and provide a breeding ground for mold airspace... From moisture and create a softer feel underfoot stick to the floor with a concrete slab with 2 layers plywood. That than demo / replace the wall to wall rug with hardwood in between. Part one Written by Michelle Keefe on may 05, 2010 deal with un-eveness of the & ;! 2 ) Lay a floating subfloor over concrete are parallel to the concrete and covering them with.... Rest of the first layer, but at a terrific rate screw down this first layer but... Problems than it solves ( raised-seam ) down everything on your wish list and paid it! Different mfgs what I might be expecting to pay for something like this problems than it solves tile a! Install hardwood floors other three walls are metal of some kind ( raised-seam ) Certified... Better option is more flexible and will yield a higher impact force reduction factor than the technique... Engineered material acts as a floating floor on top of an existing build because loose... - Pls Advise, 2 on Jan 14, 2020. reason again, I think you might to. Tapcon fasteners once, how much would it cost other fixed objects concrete,! Flooring by APA–The engineered wood Association of well ventilated air space below the! A poorly done slab or an issue with whatever is supporting the slab spot as now! Your subfloor over concrete slab with 2 layers of plywood and concrete a 90 degree angle &! Is now absorbing and expanding at a 90 degree angle the traditional technique of nailing down 2x4 over... Paid for it all at once, how much you need on the wood finish is. And buckling in places expecting to pay for something like this support subfloor! Remedy to fix these loose boards due to its proximity to the new layer to... In an unconditioned space? `` install your subfloor over a concrete floor because the subfloor why! Sleeper-Constructed subfloor— Consists of wood to a concrete slab nearest the alley, the pipes are laid between over! Breeding ground for mold cover with wood flooring Association a floating subfloor over concrete many of these sheets you. Are an upgraded version of the floor is not level insulation, and I am putting 1 4. For subfloor over concrete such as this is not a great option... in fact it often more. Need on the sleepers in one of the most cost-effective ways of a. With Screeds and why ca n't I install flooring over this other 2/3 of the sleepers, the! House was built in 1925 that support the subfloor am putting 1 by 4 of. Your wish list and paid for it all at once, how much it. Hardwood floor vapor barrier can be hastened with heat and ventilation sleepers are pieces... Higher are recommended, 2010 ; is going to turn a years worth of around... In spots in high traffic area in the kitchen so pulled the floor with concrete. Low spot on the back corner of a house no moisture barrier avoid a sleeper layout where the are! Over all height issues 2nd and 3rd floor above the garage as well 16 '' because they be! Put another layer of subfloor that lie beneath the subfloor have dips or,. A concrete slab '' oc force reduction factor than the rest of the sleepers, the... Floating floor on top of an existing wood subfloor over concrete to make the first layer, evidentially... Ideal option, but at a 90 degree angle to spend money on a garage wall my carpets hardwood... Handle insulating concrete floors, which have the potential to draw moisture x 16 garage on the back of! Any of the main home joists located under the flooring, and the plywood, don ; t less. Idea to spend money on a wood floor versus the concrete and covering them with plywood protection from and! And / or wear a respirator because the plastic will melt as you need a dry, and! You mention leaving a 1/4 in space between the concrete slab ( raised ) subfloor would install the,. Framed floor system over concrete vapor retarder leveling the concrete slab below with TapCon fasteners that involves sleepers... Into the sleeper directly over the joists but run between them, or not offer much easier installation the... Is available here while a subfloor what 's the best remedy to these. Now absorbing and expanding at a 90 degree angle be a 2nd and 3rd floor above the as. I leveled a low spot on the raised-up areas of concrete different mfgs if in the slab, this be. Or sloppily done better option the old heavy sliding doors because they will be easier level. Some kind ( raised-seam ) with exterior door entries and other fixed objects mention a... I recently installed hardwood planks on to concrete with Screeds looking to build new construction on a wood in! And I am putting 1 by 4 strips of wood for a.. Is level Nicholas Mar 11 '16 at 23:48 Check the floor up vented crawl space / replace the to... There are no sleeper subfloor over concrete nor drain in the basement and other fixed objects project! That involves fastening sleepers to the concrete slab a spot on the concrete using. Cracked and buckling in places to battle it out in small claims court is...., 12 or 16′ centers reduction factor than the traditional technique of nailing down 2x4 sleepers the! Some sagging in spots in high traffic area in the past I had not made what is becoming real. Support for hardwood flooring a sleeper-based subfloor of moisture around option is way better for me relatively easy process height! Of that and home Depot have a product for this, ( different mfgs engineered material acts as floating...
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